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  1. #1
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    Mar 2003
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    Bonding Gas Lines

    When we change out furnaces I used to see the electrician bond the gas line to either the water line or back to the panel. Lately they haven't been doing it.
    1. Why would they not do this anymore?
    2. Is bonding of steel gas lines still required if the utility service line is plastic coming out of the ground?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, Canada Occupation:Interprovincial Plumber, Commercial Gasfitter Interests:
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    2,414
    Bonding is still required.
    I love my job, but paydays Thursday

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    19,554
    Check out article 250. Gas lines are considered to be "other piping." They must be bonded.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  4. #4
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    Mar 2003
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    Saskatchewan, Canada
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    775
    Just checked my own house (5 yrs old) and the gas line is not bonded. Thanks for the info guys, looks like I'm going to have a chat with an electrician.

  5. #5
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniak View Post
    Just checked my own house (5 yrs old) and the gas line is not bonded. Thanks for the info guys, looks like I'm going to have a chat with an electrician.

    Some of that is going to depend on when the plans were approved.

    However, you are in Canada, and Canada has a very nationalistic bent, which I know well, being my dad was a Mountie.

    Canada without any doubt has developed their OWN standard for electrical installation, and while some of it may mimic the US-based NEC, published by the NFPA, there are very different approaches to be taken in each country to accomplish the desired results.

    For that reason, I would research the parallel standards used in the Dominion and your particular Province, and THEN talk to an electrician.

    It just may be that bonding gas lines is not one of the things they do in your area, so do the homework first.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Barrie Ontario
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    318
    In Ontario it's not the electricians responsibility it's on the gas tech to do it

  7. #7
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkey View Post
    In Ontario it's not the electricians responsibility it's on the gas tech to do it

    Which is why I posted what I did.

    In the US, grounding and bonding are ELECTRICAL standards. In Canada, all bets are off.

    Somehow, with all of the licensing and difficulty in gaining permissions from the government to do various jobs, Mike Holmes still gets hundreds of letters a month with plumbing, electrical, HVAC, and a host of other issues. With all those licensing and permit folks working on the provincial level, all of the work in every home should be 100%.

    Right?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  8. #8
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    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Which is why I posted what I did.

    In the US, grounding and bonding are ELECTRICAL standards. In Canada, all bets are off.

    Somehow, with all of the licensing and difficulty in gaining permissions from the government to do various jobs, Mike Holmes still gets hundreds of letters a month with plumbing, electrical, HVAC, and a host of other issues. With all those licensing and permit folks working on the provincial level, all of the work in every home should be 100%.

    Right?
    Probably because its more difficicult and more expensive to get the proper permits in Canada lots of work is done without a permit, like in the US.

  9. #9
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    Probably because its more difficicult and more expensive to get the proper permits in Canada lots of work is done without a permit, like in the US.
    But who is doing the work? Since ALL of the electricians, gas fitters, HVAC guys have to be pulling permits, or lose their licenses?

    Are all of those homes that Holmes takes apart built by itinerant "first nation" gypsies, homes built without inspections?

    Naaaah.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniak View Post
    When we change out furnaces I used to see the electrician bond the gas line to either the water line or back to the panel. Lately they haven't been doing it.
    1. Why would they not do this anymore?
    2. Is bonding of steel gas lines still required if the utility service line is plastic coming out of the ground?

    Thanks.
    250.104(B)
    (B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure; the grounded conductor at the service; the grounding electrode conductor, if of sufficient size; or to one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s) The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means.[/COLOR] The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

    The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping SHALL BE PERMITTED TO SERVE AS THE BONDING MEANS. This will eventually be removed due to new testing of the bonding methods for CSST showing that the # 14 grounding wire is insufficient for bonding the furnace.

  11. #11
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Sufficient for bonding the furnace, but not sufficient for the CSST.

    I'm sure that's what you meant.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  12. #12
    Where I live , in the southern USA , it is not done . The gas utility does not allow it .

    The old " cold water ground " is often not used , for fear of electrolysis .

    Years and years ago , we had an inspector that was happy if all you had was a ground rod . He did not care about anything else . He has long past on to his reward .

    On commercial work , you had better read the specifications .

    God bless
    Wyr

  13. #13
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    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyrTwister View Post
    Where I live , in the southern USA , it is not done . The gas utility does not allow it .

    The old " cold water ground " is often not used , for fear of electrolysis .

    Years and years ago , we had an inspector that was happy if all you had was a ground rod . He did not care about anything else . He has long past on to his reward .

    On commercial work , you had better read the specifications .

    God bless
    Wyr
    Gas bonding is required throughout the country. The underground gas piping can not be used as a grounding electrode. T prevent this the main gas cock at the meter is a dielectric fitting isolating the underground line from the structure.
    250.104
    (B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure; the grounded conductor at the service; the grounding electrode conductor, if of sufficient size; or to one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

    250.52 (B)
    (B) Not Permitted for Use as Grounding Electrodes. The following systems and materials shall not be used as grounding electrodes:

    (1) Metal underground gas piping systems

    (2) Aluminum

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