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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
    Posts
    45

    LED Versus Fluorescent In Ceiling Fixtures

    Anyone have any numbers to share on which system makes more sense to install today. I'd like to hear about new installs as well as retrofitting existing fixtures.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    188
    ive been installing Cree 2x2 led troffers in all of our buildings and they work amazing. we get a really good price on them plus a rebate from our local utility.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,443
    Fluorescent is way more cost effective in initial cost of high lumen output applications. LED's are cool, but have a ways to go for high lumen fixtures at reasonable prices.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,608
    I'm not involved in the switch to LEDs, but do hear the electicians talk about them. The Crees put out as much or more light than the Fluorescents, the Crees are 60% directional so there is less wasted light verses the 100% directional Fluorescents. There is no burn in time and there is very little light output decrease over the life of the bulbs. The utility pays us more per fixture to retro fit than the cost of the materials, this helps offset labor cost. About six years ago they change all of the Exit signs to LEDs, only one has had an issue, we think someone hit the sign. It has to help the Cooling load, I have one building I'm worried about since it's Electric Reheat. BTW they joke that they are putting themselves out of a job, by installing LEDs.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,443
    Exit signs are an area that LED's are excellent. Low lumen requiremnets and long life.

  6. #6
    I also would like to update my garage with LED fixtures like the king of racing. Many LED manufacturers have no common plan for communication to the luminaires, and the standards in fixturing are not there. How do you replace a unit with another manufacturer? Not easily.

    How do you communicate with other luminaires or other building systems? 0-10v control is not a reasonable solution for larger buildings. It should have seen its implementation death many years prior to today. It is an embarrassment to the industry.

    With most fluorescent you have had the ability to use open protocol. Worldwide there are some manufacturers that are using DALI protocol in LED, although in the US market DALI seems discouraged by many factions which do not seem to appreciate open protocols. I think you will find CREE largely with this mindset. It appears they will give you a true DALI option if not located in the US. In the US they have an option from Lutron. Lutron literature states that EcoSense is closely based off of the international DALI standard (IEC 60929), with proprietary extensions to allow additional functionality.

    This could be considered close minded thinking, and long term not a good idea to support a closed direction such as CREE where they do not support open communication in a better manner. Even someday you will need to replace all luminaires in a building. Not having the ability for a competitive procurement environment is a poor choice for a building owner and something which requires more careful long term consideration.

    It is also not so clear that LED is the most efficient solution.
    http://www.p-2.com/helpful-information/blog/370-is-led-the-most-efficient-lighting-technology/

    I think there is only improvement, but for today fluorescent is still viable.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,538
    Quote Originally Posted by madhat View Post
    BTW they joke that they are putting themselves out of a job, by installing LEDs.
    I was in an electrical supply house picking up a couple 6ft H.O. flourescent bulbs for a supermarket freezer and happened to mention that I just needed two bulbs because they were for an emergency repair while I waited for the shipment of LED retrofits to come in.

    The counter guy suggested that by installing LEDs I was putting myself out of a job and that changing bulbs makes more money in the long run than putting in expensive LEDs now. I replied that I'm a refrigeration guy, not a bulb changer and freezer lights are a thorn in my side and I'm happier not getting calls about the T12s being burned out for the 3rd time this month.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by madhat View Post
    I'm not involved in the switch to LEDs, but do hear the electicians talk about them. The Crees put out as much or more light than the Fluorescents, the Crees are 60% directional so there is less wasted light verses the 100% directional Fluorescents. There is no burn in time and there is very little light output decrease over the life of the bulbs. The utility pays us more per fixture to retro fit than the cost of the materials, this helps offset labor cost. About six years ago they change all of the Exit signs to LEDs, only one has had an issue, we think someone hit the sign. It has to help the Cooling load, I have one building I'm worried about since it's Electric Reheat. BTW they joke that they are putting themselves out of a job, by installing LEDs.
    It's good to hear some electricians joke about it. I've heard others who don't think it's funny at all. They really complain about this issue.
    Mike Eby
    Editor-in-Chief, EC&M Magazine
    http://www.ecmweb.com

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